Hey, Kevin who are you quoting when
doing these posts? haha, I have always wondered. Good information nonetheless,
but how many people really ever experience these die offs of fish or hydrogen
sulfide being produced etc... I guess it does happen because people always seem
to talk about it, but I have never had issues and have never heard of anyone
close to me ever have their a tank crash.
As well, these are all true for the
bacteria, but one cannot ignore what plants do to the system and that some
plants do not like O2 touching their root hairs, while other produce the O2.
Tom Barr did tons of studies and found that the optimum nutrient exchange/O2
circulation within the substrate is that of a natural one, what does he mean,
one with just soil or Aquasoil, no need for heating cables, not need for
laterite or power sand and definitely no need for undergravel filters, he did
experiments with reverse undergravels and found the REDOX areas shaped
themselves like the shape of an egg box, areas of lower and higher REDOX,
as well I have heard other scientists say that you do want some anaerobic
areas, so is this true, so they can strip the O off of the nitrate, and I know
some must be converted back to ammonia, but in the presence of plants and high
CEC Aquasoils it will be quickly taken up by the roots or chelated for later,
then the roots release CO2 and the H+ trades spots with the chelated basic
nutrient like K.
So my whole point is that I have an
article that Tom Barr sent me talking about how bacteria " the biofilm"
as well as the plants themselves determine a healthy environment, not just the
bacteria, and that the plants play a huge role and will manipulate their
surroundings to more than ideal. I am sure what you are saying is true, you are
the Professor , but I think there needs to be more emphasis on what plants are
capable of doing to the substrate. I use Aquasoils which are high in humates
and baked with high CEC clays, so you have the best of both worlds when using
Aquasoil. Humates have even more CEC/AEC than the clay, but you have the clay
for helping to keep the pellet shape and it aids, I am sure, in nutrient
exchange, similar to laterite, as well as trapping all colloidal particles
making for crystal clear water, and it is very light and allows for good oxygen
exchange at the water column/substrate interface. And the pellet shape helps
against compaction.
Anyhow, I have never worried about
bacteria and have always had very good success with African Cichlids and
planted aquariums. I figure that for the most part the bacteria and the plants
will manipulate their surroundings just like they do in nature, but you cannot
ignore what the plants do to the system. Tom's studies show that power sand,
heating cables and laterite are not necessary and he was actually getting the
best readings of exchange rates and whatever else you scientists do with just
plain dirt in his tank.
Is he just way off? I want to keep an
open mind, but Tom is a pretty big heavy weight in the hobby. Any advice or
info would be appreciated and here is a link to the article. Maybe you could
help clarify.
Thanks
Dave
Hi
Dave,
Excellent
letter… not quoting anyone except myself on these informative posts, the same
is on my blog. Just trying to expand the information chain with also trying to
debunk some of the bad information that is on the Internet.
If
you have read any of my post you will see that I highly recommend a plenum for
diffusion of ions and water movement through the substrate. I see too many
YouTube videos that show the wrong way of doing things and people need to know
that it is wrong and within a year sometimes a little longer that tank(s) do
“crash”. I have seen many and I also have replicated this crash in tanks myself
at home and in the lab. Of course the definition of crash will have to be
defined because what becomes a crash to some may be just a nuisance to others.
When
you talk about optimum nutrient exchange and oxygen penetration into the
substrate like that of a “Natural system”; if ions are not allowed to go into
and out of the substrate without hindrance then we are talking only about
closed systems and not the working of a natural system where the substrate is
electrically charged. When redox
is in the shape of an egg in the substrate then your system is a closed one and
those pockets of higher and lower redox prove that the ion exchange is being
hindered or you have pockets of oxygen depletion happening. In a plenum the
redox stays at a neutral redox throughout the bottom and does not change or
have pockets.
No
it is not and I will emphasize this right now, no it is NOT good to have
“anaerobic zones in a closed system, this is not good. The reason is the
obligated anaerobic bacteria only make more ammonia/ammonium ions and that’s
it. Microbiologist know better than to say ‘anaerobic zones” in any aquarium is
good thing. Anoxic conditions are desired and nothing below that as far as
oxygen depletion is concerned. That way you will have facultative anaerobic
bacteria that will take oxygen from nitrates NO3 if need be and not the ammonia
making obligated anaerobic bacteria that will leach the ammonium ion back into
solution once again. Is this really what you want? Please click on the link below and follow it to Syd’s
Internet site.
This
article will open up you eyes to the truth and all that misinformation that is
out there in cyberspace will be debunked for you.
Bacteria
trying to hold on to a moving media by polymeric adhesive create Biofilm and
this adhesive is made up of living and dying cells. In an anoxic system like
the one I have invented, the cells do not have to make this biofilm that clogs
filter media microspores and they go on about doing what they are suppose to do
and that is eat, multiply and take care of the nitrogen cycle.
If
you or anyone can create an environment that is stable, and remember this is
the key word here is stable
environment in a substrate and it is in an Anoxic state at all times, then
plants will become secondary in the biological process of the microbial world.
Plants are not as dependable as you may think. There are many variables that
can and will change the way plants takes up and utilize ions and when. I do not
want people to thinks that just because they use plants that they and not the
substrates bacterium will save the day in their tanks and ponds…they will not!
It will take more plants than most hobbyist know, to do the job of determining
a healthy environment.
The
fact is if you don’t get the substrate right the first time, then everything
from then on will only have to work harder to correct ones mistakes.
Yes,
you are exceedingly correct in saying what plants can do an their benefits in
the closed system and that cannot be emphasized enough. However, depending on
plants alone will not bring about success for everyone in the aquarium hobby or
pond hobby, what people need is a constant that anyone can repeatability do,
not just some and not just those with all the CO2 equipment. If those plants
are in a closed system and not an open one, like that of natural systems where
water is going into and out of the substrate or an Anoxic Filtration System,
then the plants will not do as much work as you are lead to believe. It would
take several pounds of plants to do the work you are talking about and that is a
scientific fact.
Aquasoil
is a good substrate for planted aquariums when new but what if you already have
a medium to use such as aquarium gravel and you don’t wish to buy new gravel
all over again? Aquasoil will become exhausted then what do you do? Then you
make mention of “trapping all colloidal particles” that means that the
substrate is a noncystalline substance and that means no attraction of positive
ions out of the water body. Clay (Laterite) has a crystalline structure and
that in turn attracts positive ion out of the water body. When it becomes
exhausted it can be added to using various methods.
QUOTE:
”plants play a huge role and will manipulate their surroundings to more than
ideal.” Sorry but this is not quite true and ask any pond owner when they go to
transplant their water lilies (remember they are under the most ideal condition
ever with direct sunlight and all the CO2 in the world at their disposal) and
see blacken soil and smell what it is doing, and they will tell you the same
thing. Plus, I give an example that even with plants the gravel will blacken at
the very bottom of the glass aquarium in time. I would not call that manipulate
their surroundings to favorable conditions, would you? Blacken gravel means no
oxygen is getting to that part of the substrate and that means obligated
anaerobic bacteria are creating their havoc.
Look
Dave, I’m not trying to be a smart ass here, but all that I talk about is being
taught in universities in microbiology classes along with aquatic botany of
plants. You don’t think I spent 10-years of scientific research on the AFS and
I didn’t try dirt, do you? Dirt fail miserably in a closed system because of permeability
and porewater did not quite make ideal conditions unless the plants were very
aggressive in bringing oxygen into the substrate. It was only repeatable if
conditions were ideal and then if there was a break down of the plants ability
to take in cantons and anions in equal amounts, the soil went bad and anaerobic
conditions took over the substrates. The substrate has to depend on other means
to get water into it and oxygen and plants are not the answer alone. That’s why
in the AFS it works with and without plants because of the science behind how
it works with the substrate and bacteria.
When
I try and help the hobbyist, I try and give repeatability of doing things that
gives them a 90% chance or better for success for their endeavors. Heavyweights
in this hobby invent things that make it better for all, not give none scientific
anecdotal accounts of what they think is good for all. It takes years of
research and experimenting to come up with great ideas that benefit all and not
just a few. An then when you’re all done an bring it out to the public, you
better have all your ducks in a row or they will eat you alive and smash your
face right into the grown, and laugh all the while they’re doing it. Hobbyists
are brutal people and don’t…like…change!
By
the way, thanks for the Internet site.
Cheers,
Kevin
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